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Flipdiscs

Andrew Zolty under the artist name BREAKFAST has created quite a few stunning kinetic artworks with flipdisks.

Just one example: https://theartistbreakfast.com/works/traverse

Also created a larger more sculpted derivative the „brixel“ a rotating brick as pixel. Eg https://theartistbreakfast.com/works/oceans

a month agolgrebe

This is the product they commercialized: https://flipdisc.co/

Last I heard a number of years ago it’s around $2000/sq ft. Around the same price scale as mid range LED wall modules.

a month agofiatpandas

> "Oceans" is a kinetic sculpture that embodies the dynamism of the world's oceans within the arid landscape of Las Vegas. Crafted from 483 motorized elements known as "Brixels," this piece mimics the movement of the sea's surface. The sculpture is alive with the pulse of the planet's waters, ...

All I can see are bars of gold.

a month agorendaw

BREAKFAST (AKA Zolty) here. The “ocean” aspect of the piece is in how it moves and the real-time API data that drives the wave-like motion. It grabs live tide data from a different coastal city each minute and changes based on that. The gold and marble bricks took inspiration from the Fontainebleau art deco style of their original Miami hotel (this piece lives in their Vegas location).

Here’s a clip of it moving (doesn’t read so well as a static image): https://theartistbreakfast.com/works/oceans

a month agobreakfastny

Can someone explain the “Fontainebleau art deco style”? I have been to Fountainbleau and I remember it as much older renaissance style architecture and geometric/baroque gardens.

25 days agojohanvts

Whoah!

Sorry, I was half joking, half of me gets the metaphor, but the other me is seeing a wall of bricks of gold in a Las Vegas casino and gets another metaphor.

Either way it's beautiful!

25 days agorendaw

I agree... it's gorgeous, but it's missing the ocean's colors.

a month agomcphage

Interesting, that "fade away" effect looks almost exactly like what I see when I get a migraine aura.

a month agonancyminusone

It is so sad to see both this and the title "It's ok to abandon your side project" on the front page while I have three flipdisc displays sitting in the basement without the time and equipment to get them up and running.

No, it's not ok to abandon those flipdisc displays! :(

Admittedly I read neither of the articles. But who doesn't sometimes get caught up in the conincidence of titles on here may vote me down :D

a month agosoblemprolver

Unless you've thrown everything away, your side project isn't abandoned, it's reprioritized.

a month agowhynotmaybe

You'll get to it when you get to it. After 2 years, I've just been working on my flipdiscs this weekend!

a month agoalnwlsn

Maybe we should both stare at walls more than scrolling on HN.

a month agonvader

There is a fairly impressive installation of these at Heathrow airport in Terminal 5 outside the BA lounges. Struggling to find a decent video on YouTube, but this one’s not terrible https://youtu.be/G03WA30yFMI?si=hx5aLlrj_BH21yr2

a month agosimonjgreen

There's also one at the entrance to Google's High Line Cafe in NYC (above the Chelsea Market).

a month agobsimpson

I did the same for my office and bought used LAWO flipdot panels for this. Screenshot of the thing here: https://github.com/aivju/flipdotz

a month agoW0lf

Nice. Seeing that gives me memories of flight displays at airports.

a month agokristianp

They've been slowly replacing the flip-disc displays on the buses where I live with LEDs and LCD panels which has been such a shame. There is a beautiful mechanical satisfaction to a panel of flip-discs inverting and I genuinely find them easier to read.

a month agoOuterVale

They seemed less reliable than LEDs. When they were common here they would always have tens of dots stuck in the wrong position.

a month agoGigachad

I'd imagine the vibrations didn't do them any good

a month agoPerz1val

Interestingly, I've never noticed any stuck discs. I'm pretty observant of them as well, because I think they're so cool.

a month agoOuterVale

The ones here could have been nearing the end of their life to be fair. They have basically all been replaced with LED signs now.

a month agoGigachad

This is BREAKFAST (AKA Zolty) mentioned above.

The old panels had diode issues. It wasn’t the mechanism failing — the simplicity of electromagnets means they last an insanely long time, significantly longer than an LED. The diodes were just cheap and undersized. If you have a stuck disc on an old board, 99% chance you just need to replace the diode. If it still flips but gets stuck on one side, a pin has gotten sticky and needs graphite applied.

a month agobreakfastny

The Luminator MAX 3000 is an interesting hybrid between a flip dot display and an LED display. I find it very pleasing to the eye and easy to read, particularly at night.

In front of the flip dots is a frame that has a mini-LED that faces and front-lights each flip dot. This gives the appearance that each flip dot is glowing.

(1) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ru1DSs1tjQ

a month agoxattt

The LED / LCD displays are probably lighter (less heavy), and someone figured they can save 0.001 gallons of diesel a year fleet wide if they replace displays.

Net Zero Fatigue is real.

a month agonandomrumber

Much more likely, I think, the mechanical displays had some maintenance cost which cheap LED displays will not.

a month agopastel8739

You've confabulated a reason why they replaced them, linked it to initiative then complained about them doing it all in two sentences. A gold medal in mental gymnastics is warranted here!

a month agoRodeoclash

They’re probably just cheaper and require less maintenance.

You’re not doing your cause any favors by projecting everything on an ill-fitting frame.

a month agoMrBuddyCasino

If I’m not mistaken (their pricing is a bit hard to find), nine of the flip fits display modules will set you back ~$5000 alone, plus the rest of the hardware. While I love the idea that is a lot of fun budget for other projects…

a month agoricardobeat

Thanks, I've been looking for that. Interesting how nowadays it's orders of magnitude cheaper to buy a 4k 65" panel and fake the dots (and sound) on it.

a month agostavros

I recall a comment from somewhere that it was cheaper to put up a large monitor over a hole in the wall than to pay someone to patch it...

a month agomhb

You can put an OLED TV over a hole in the wall and it's cheaper than getting someone to fix the drywall.

a month agorayiner

Haha, that actually sounds plausible, but, since monitors are backlit, your hole will be glowing.

Nobody outside a gas station wants a glowy hole.

a month agostavros

This is insanely cool, the noise they make is also really satisfying!

What was the cost/time breakdown of the entire project because the flipdisc prices are hidden behind quotes and it seems like it would take quite a lot of time to complete the whole display!

a month agokaipereira

The prices I’ve seen mentioned are around USD$3-5 per “pixel”.

Similar to all the ePaper projects that show up here, they’re expensive but cool gimmicks.

a month agosen

Whole dollars per pixel is insane!

The whole mechanism looks very 3d printable... I wonder if one could design one with PCB coils and a large 3d print only? If so, cost could probably come down to cents per pixel...

You'd probably also need a single 'C' shaped piece of steel for the magnetic flux path, but you might be able to find a supplier for the right shape already used for something else you can buy in large quantities very cheaply (eg. Steel staples).

a month agolondons_explore

These mention 25-30 fps, so the mechanism may cost a bit to be that sturdy.

I wonder if anyone makes cheaper versions that you're only supposed to update at 1 frame per minute or less...

a month agonottorp

There’s a very large one of these at “Climate Pledge Arena” in Seattle. Perhaps 8 feet tall and 16 feet wide. Pretty cool, but stuck pixels are even more annoying when it makes you want to reach out and poke them.

I use quotes because it will always be the Colosseum to me, where I saw the Butthole Surfers, Dead Moon and Nirvana. Don’t get me started on the Kingdome.

a month agoshermantanktop

That arena famously has dead pixels on its video boards hanging over the ice as well!

a month agoBrendinooo

> as a pleasant bonus, they emit a sound like rain hitting a window each time one of the disc flips

must be vrey annoying very fast if you have to sit next to it all day

a month agoyigalirani

I suppose it would be much more quiet if the disc stops were magnetic with no actual contact, but that would add a lot of expense.

a month agodelichon

That display needs some Conway’s Game of Life action pronto.

a month agonandomrumber

I came here to say Bad Apple

a month agonvader

I bought a flip dot display on eBay and now I am stuck with the old thing and my lack of knowledge to make it work. Here's a great resource about technical details (only German though) https://radow.org/flip-dot.php

EDIT: "They have high readability, a long lifespan, and achieves anywhere between 25-60fps" - I think you can't achieve 60fps with a flip dot display.

a month agoofrzeta

They can't if they are wired like they usually are from the factory, because they are wired in a matrix where you can only update one row at a time. They did this to save on IO lines/output transistors, I guess. So you have to wait for the whole screen to finish drawing before beginning the next frame.

But you can flip them fast/in parallel if you have a driver for each disc:

https://pierremuth.wordpress.com/2021/02/17/flipping-dots-fa...

I've been working on one and I have and I am trying to use an H-bridge per disc. It's possible to find very cheap ICs; for my 308 discs, it only cost $10 for these (not counting the additional time/costs that comes with coming up with 616 IO lines, getting a PCB made, dealing with power issues, etc):

https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/C5795599.html

a month agoalnwlsn

Depends how much power and noise you're willing for it to make!!

Remember that texas instruments DLP technology which is in use in pretty much every office/home cinema projector is effectively micro flip-dots micromachined in silicon, and that can operate at ~10,000 FPS.

a month agolondons_explore

With my rudimentary physics knowledge I'd think that smaller structures can be moved faster than bigger structures.

EDIT: also when you google a bit you can find a guy who maxed out flip dot displays at 30fps (which honestly I thought would not be possible either)

a month agoofrzeta

Uhm yeah they are a lot smaller. That makes a difference obviously.

a month agoIshKebab

There's also the Atkinson dithering (made by Bill Atkinson) which produces very neat results.

a month agoprima-facie

I'd like to see someone play DOOM (or any game, really) using that flip disc screen!

a month agoMagi604

I was thinking of Bad Apple!![1], but maybe that's too niche.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtutLA63Cp8

a month agokelseyfrog

You made me wonder just how often Touhou is even mentioned on HN, so I did a quick search and... less than 15 results! (not counting dupes).

Niche indeed...

a month agoMagi604

That seems weird. Bad Apple is up there with doom in terms of "make it run", and a few high profile-ish hackers seem to enjoy touhou stuff (drew devault off the top of my head)

a month agomghackerlady

I wonder if you could have it play the music as well by the right timing of flipping, just like how the Floppotron works.

a month agogsliepen

The first thing I dig in the article was a search for "bad". Glad I'm not the only one.

a month agojllyhill

Tetris seems like a good fit -- given the frame to frame changes are minimal adjacent pixels, the responsiveness should be acceptable

a month agoalbert_e

I remember seeing those at the airport when I was a kid it was fascinating, one of the screens was close to the ground and I got over the chairs just curious how do they flip, now we have the boring soulless LEDs.

a month agotamimio

I have a question about those wire ferrules they said they were using:

I occasionally connect wires to terminals, but - I've never used ferrules: I just self-twist the thin strands, push the thing in, and use the lever or tightening screw depending on the terminal's mechanism.

Why would I use a ferrule? Or perhaps, under what circumstances is that advised?

PS - Link to the ferrules they mentioned: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R6QQ7MW/

a month agoeinpoklum

Ferrules often have insulating shells around the base which are good strain relief.

Ferrules also evenly distribute the clamping force and prevent crushing of the strands.

Ferrules solve the problem of having to align the threads every time you re-post them in a terminal block.

a month agofgfarben

I wonder if crushing is more of a phenomenon when you have a lever you're encouraged to push down to a flush position, rather than a screw you tighten and have tactile feedback regarding the difficult of tightening further.

24 days agoeinpoklum

The wire will crush over time and the connection will become looser. That will increase the resistance of the connection and in high current applications will cause heating. If you're really unlucky it will cause a fire.

a month agoorangewindies

I guess that's theoretically possible, but - I've not known this to happen anywhere in my lifetime, and I've not seem use of ferrules in wire terminals anywhere.

24 days agoeinpoklum

Crazy seeing this posted today. I learned about flipdiscs from ChatGPT just a few hours ago because I'm trying to find a text display type you could build or at least repair yourself. Don't need much just ASCII with enough lines for running commands and output.

I think flipdiscs would be too expensive. Honestly a teletypewriter might be the most realistic, but wastes a lot of paper.

Any other suggestions?

a month agoapitman

A plotter with a whiteboard marker would be interesting

a month agohavemurci

I love physical displays like this, or split flaps. Anything that is not a screen, and keeps it's display without power. I keep getting ads for vesta boards, but I just can't justify the expense.

I have notebook from ~15 years ago full of pie-in-the-sky ideas for different types of displays. This was before I got a job that took up all of my attention span.

a month agodec0dedab0de

It's crazy that I was trying to find good resources for split flaps and then flip discs just yesterday and was just thinking, damn, there aren't any good or recent information about flip discs, just decade-old proprietary stuff to be found Great work!

a month agoabhiraj_patwa

Popular in UK train stations until very recently. I suspect that there are still a few out there!

a month agob800h

The author mentions SubSpace (the computer game, from the 90s), and the limited pixel budget for player banners in it.

It would be interesting to see if you could run a pared-down version of that game on a display like this.

a month agobovermyer

I think a missed opportunity on the website would be to have a flip button to change the colors pallete too! White background black text and flip back to the current one!

Very cool project!

a month agodanvillalon

Is the last photo on that page, describing the cabling, a screenshot of another photo displayed using flipdiscs? that is a whole lot of discs!!

a month agoharikb

I think it's just a simulation of what it could look like if it were flipdiscs.

a month agorazorbeamz

Damn, I really wish there was a T in "Quick jazzy vibe flows from exploding pixels", 'cause the sentence is just cool!

a month agolaserbeam

From the exploding pixels and then you're fine. You needed an H as well anyway.

a month agoscrumper

It makes me really anxious that the 3d model in the header is not in quaternions and i keep getting gimbal locked

25 days agocantalopes

Lookmumnocomputer did some nice work for thismuseumisnotobsolete with flip displays.

See on YouTube or visit in person

a month agojimnotgym

If you're into electromechanical machines, he also has a working telephone exchange and a bunch of videos where he restores its various components and explains how it works (I still don't quite understand how it works though). That's the original reason I subscribed to his channel, but his wild musical contraptions are also cool.

a month agogrishka

I would love to see the cost of the whole hardware mentioned. I guess it would be around a 1000USD

a month agopo1nt

Looks like this would lend itself naturally to sorting algorithm demos.

a month agogroos

I wonder how small they can be. Would be an amazing watch display.

a month agogrumpysysop

Technology is so cool and you're using it to build a mirror. Would have loved to see generative or other weird graphics.

a month agopolyterative

Did you read the article? The author goes into several applications beyond just that.

a month agobovermyer

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